In 1920, the leader of an obscure German political party 1920年，德国一个不引人注目的政党的领袖
made what seemed at the time an insignificant decision. 做出了当时看似不重要的决定
Adolf Hitler adopted a symbol for his National Democratic Socialist Party. 希特勒为他的 "民族民主社会党" 采纳了一个象征。
It was a symbol which, over the next two decades, 那个象征在接下来的 20多年里，
would become synonymous with hatred, fear, 将等同于憎恨、恐惧
and a regime that slaughtered millions. 和一个屠杀几百万人的政权。
The swastika. 十字符.
The swastika means Nazism. It means evil, death and genocide. 十字符意味着纳粹主义。它意味着 邪恶、死亡和种族屠杀。
In Auschwitz, it was an emblem that I hated 在奥斯维辛，那是一个我憎恨的象征，
and I didn't even want to see it. 我甚至不想看到它。
But the swastika has a long and complex history. 但十字符有一个长久复杂的历史。
For thousands of years, this has been a religious symbol, 几千年来，这一直是宗教的象征，有着神圣的过去。
with a sacred past. A sign of benevolence, luck and good fortune. 一个慈爱、运气和财运的符号。
And for the nearly one billion Hindus around the world today, 对于如今世界上将近 十亿的印度教教徒
it lies at the heart of their religious practices and beliefs. 它处于他们的宗教实践和信仰的核心。
For me personally, the swastika means hope. It means purity, 对于我个人，十字符意味着希望。它意味着纯洁
it means auspiciousness. 它意味着吉祥。
The swastika will be used by Hindus to evoke a sense of the sacred. 十字符被印度教徒用于唤醒神圣的感觉
To draw the attention of the divine to human undertakings. 来将圣灵的注意力吸引到人类事业这来。
But because of its recent past, in the West, the Hindu swastika has sometimes provoked hostility. 但由于它近来的过去历史，在西方，印度教的十字符有时会挑起敌意。
I've got a tattoo of a swastika on my lip. 我在嘴唇上纹了一个十字符。
And when I got it done, the tattoo artist was a little taken aback 我纹完后，纹身艺人吃惊，
and he was like, "Ah, Jew killer." And I said, "No." 类似说:"杀犹太人的人。" 我说: "不是。"
In the week when Hindus across Britain are celebrating 这周，当整个英国的印度教徒庆祝
the holy festival of Diwali, we tell the story of their sacred symbol. 神圣的排灯节，我们讲述他们神圣标志的历史。
And we bring together members of the communities 我们集合起来这样的社区成员，
for whom it has the most potent meaning, 十字符对一些社区成员有最有力的意义。
to see if a new experience of the swastika 看看十字符的一种新体验能否
could break down long-held prejudices. 击垮长久持有的偏见
It's very beautiful. I mean, it's obviously quite different, 它非常漂亮，它明显特别的不同。
being in gold compared to red and black. 金黄色，对比于红色和黑色，
Can Hindus restore the reputation of a symbol they believe invokes the blessings of the divine? 对于能激发圣灵祝福的标志，印度教徒们能恢复这个符号的声誉吗？
道兰论坛 daolan.net 原创中文字幕 cym 合并中英文
Sunday morning. 星期天早晨，
Chalfont Cricket Club in leafy Buckinghamshire. 在树木茂密的白金汉郡的 Chalfont 板球俱乐部。
A place associated with English teas and the gentle competitiveness of the weekend sportsman. 一个与英国茶叶和周末的运动健将温和竞争有关联的地方。
Certainly not a place you'd expect to see a symbol most commonly associated with the fascist regimes of pre-war Germany. 当然，在这里，你不会见到那个 与战前德国法西斯政权广泛关联的标志。
But today is an exception. 但今天是例外。
The club is host to a Hindu wedding celebration, 俱乐部主持一个印度教的婚礼庆祝仪式
in which the swastika plays a vital role. 期间十字符扮演重要角色。
As the guests congregate and the happy couple arrive, 当客人们聚集，幸福的伴侣到达后，
the Hindu priest has an important task... 印度教的僧侣有一个重要任务。
..Placing a swastika in front of the sacred area 在神圣区域的前面，放置一个十字符。
where the couple will sit during the ceremony. 这个婚礼期间新郎新娘坐的区域
And the meaning of this swastika 这个十字符的意义，
is a world away from that of Nazi Germany. 是一个远离纳粹德国的世界。
It's a diagram. 那是一个图。
The moment you look at the diagram, it should invoke the peace within you. 你看图的时候，它会在你体内激发平和。
So it has the swastika. 因此，有十字符。
"swastika"- asking the well-being of the gods. Swasti Swastika，"Swasti" means well-being, 意味着幸福；十字符 - 意味着 向神请求幸福。
A statue of their elephant-headed god, Ganesh,is placed at the centre of the swastika. 一个他们的象头神的雕像，Ganesh，被置于十字符的中心。
Ganesh is the remover of all obstacles. 是所有障碍的清除者。
And as the priest rotates him, it's believed any hindrances to the ceremony are removed. 转动它的僧侣相信，任何对仪式的损害都会被移除。
For Hindus, the swastika isn't only a sacred power for good, 对于印度教徒，十字符不只是代表美好的神圣力量，
but an essential element of any rite of passage. 也是任何人生大事仪式的必要元素。
Ramesh Pattni is the father of the groom. 是新郎的父亲。
The word "swastik" actually comes from the Sanskrit word 词汇 Swastik 实际上来自梵文，
for a state of auspiciousness. 代表吉祥。
Wherever any ceremony is performed - and Hindus have got 16 ceremonies 印度教徒一生有 16个仪式，无论仪式在哪里举行，
during the lifetime, and each one of them 在每个仪式里
will have one way or the other in which the swastik is represented.， 都有一种或者其它的方式去表示十字符。
In the wedding, the swastik, it is the most important. 在婚礼中，十字符最重要。
Because the wedding ceremony marks a transition from one period of life to another. 因为婚礼仪式标志着从生命的一个阶段到另一个阶段的转变。
HE CHANTS
And therefore all the auspiciousness is required. 因此，所有的吉兆都需要。
Warm the hands and get up! Yes! 暖暖手，站起来！就这样！
It's the first exercise as wife and husband! 这是做为妻子和丈夫的第一个活动！
As unlikely as it might seem to those not brought up 和那些不在印度教信仰中长大的孩子不同，
in the Hindu faith,for the Hindus here today, a wedding without a swastika would be unusual. 今天这里的印度教徒，没有十字符的婚礼是不正常的。
I now declare you wife and husband. May God bless you. 我现在宣布你们是夫妻，愿神保佑你们。
You look beautiful. You'll live happily ever after. 你们漂亮，以后你们将幸福生活。
For this young couple, the swastika ensures their marriage is blessed by the gods. 对这对年轻夫妻，是十字符确保他们的婚姻得到神的祝福。
It's a far cry from its associations in the West. 这和西方的关联体完全不同。
Most western people when they see it, they see a Nazi German symbol. 多数西方人看到这个，看到的是一个纳粹德国标志。
Shaunaka Rishi Das has been a Hindu priest for more than 30 years. Shaunaka Rishi Das 已经做印度教僧侣超过 30年。
It is interesting that Hindus themselves, 很有趣，印度教徒们自己
they're brought up with the swastika, it's perfectly normal for them. 伴随十字符长大，对他们来说完全正常。
You see all the children at the wedding, 所有的孩子都在婚礼上，
they're just seeing it from birth. Then they go to school 他们从出生就见到十字符，他们上学后，
and learn that the Nazis used it in this way. 学习到纳粹用那种方式使用过符。
But you have to understand that here's a tradition that's ancient. 但你必须得理解，这是古代留下来的传统。
And the Germans borrow it from a different culture and misuse it over less than two decades, and all of a sudden it develops 德国人从一个不同的文化借鉴过去，滥用十字符 20多年。突然间，
an internationally bad reputation. 十字符在国际上有了坏口碑。
HE CHANTS
Of all the symbols produced by ancient and modern man, this is the most contradictory. 古人和现代人产生的所有象征中，这个是最有矛盾的。
And its origins are shrouded in mystery. 它的起源也充满神秘。
Images of the swastika have been found across the world. 十字符的图像已经在全世界被发现。
And the earliest examples date back thousands of years. 最早的例子追溯至几千年前。
Well, the swastika's one of those strange symbols that you find in lots of different cultures. 十字符是你在不同文化中发现的那些奇怪符号之一。
You see it in China and Japan, you see it in Mongolia, 在中国、日本、蒙古都能见到，
you see it in the ancient Mediterranean world, in Greece, 在古代地中海，在希腊
even over in Native American cultures and in the British Isles as well. 甚至在土著美洲文化里，在英国不列颠群岛也能见到。
But despite the swastika's prolific-ness, its original meaning is an enigma. 但虽然十字符的丰富，它的原始意义却是个谜。
Perhaps it's just a simple, elegant geometry. 也许它只是个简单、优雅的几何图案。
Maybe it was a solar symbol. 也许它是一个太阳的象征。
It's so universal that we can't really find a first point of use, 它如此普遍，以至于我们无法找到使用的最初点，
it just has a kind of instinctive appeal across the world. 它在全世界却有一类本能的吸引力。
Some of the most ancient swastikas were found here, in India. 某些最古老的十字符在印度这里被发现。
And over the centuries, it's been adopted across the Subcontinent by many different religions. 经过多个世纪，它已经被次大陆上许多不同宗教采纳。
Hindus, Buddhists and Jains all see it a holy symbol. 印度教教徒、佛教徒和耆那教教徒都把它看成一个神圣标志。
It's displayed just about everywhere, to bring good fortune. 为了能带来好运，在每一处都展示它。
And there's one time of year that it's specially prominent. At the Hindu festival of Diwali. 每年有特别瞩目的一次，在印度教的排灯节上。
It's a five day celebration to mark the Hindu New Year. 为期 5天，庆祝印度教新年。
Also known as the festival of lights, it marks the triumph of good over evil. 也被熟知为排灯节，标志着好战胜邪。
And in India, the streets are a riot of noise and colour. 在印度，街道充满了噪音和色彩的喧嚣。
The festival honours deities such as the goddess of wealth, Lakshmi, 节日尊拜一些神，比如财富女神 Lakshmi，
and so the swastika is painted on the account books for the new financial year,to ensure prosperity. 为了确保新的财务年度繁荣，十字符被贴在账簿上。
But it's not just in the East that the swastika features in Diwali festivities. 但十字符不只是在东方的排灯节上起重要作用。
This is Neasden Temple in North West London. 这是伦敦西北部的 Neasden Temple。
It's the spiritual home to thousands of Hindus. 这里是几千名印度教教徒的精神家园。
And every Diwali, the ladies of the temple 每次排灯节，寺庙的女人们
spend hours making an incredible display, known as a rangoli, 花费数小时做一个不可思议的展览，被称为 rangoli。
like this one, in which the swastika plays a central role. 就像这个，其中十字符起到中心作用。
Rangoli patterns are literal forms of art Rangoli 图案是文字形式的艺术，
and they're created by hand, generally by women who use rice or coloured rice. 通常是由女人用米或者彩色米手工创建。
Avni Chag has been celebrating Diwali here for most of her life. Avni Chag 大半生都在这庆祝排灯节。
Diwali represents the festival of lights. Diwali 代表灯的节日。
If you go back to physics lessons, you'll always be taught how the spectrum of colours originates from white light. 如果你回去看物理课程，会讲光谱是如何从白光衍生的。
And I think that's completely honoured within these beautiful 排灯节期间，在这些漂亮的
geometric patterns and these beautiful designs that are created 几何图案和这些漂亮的设计中，十字符完全被尊崇了。
during Diwali. And most commonly you will see the Hindu swastika. 最普通的时候，会见到印度教的十字符。
And for some it may mean prosperity, for some it may mean good luck. 对有些人来讲，那也许意味着兴旺，对有些人，也许意味着好运。
For me personally, the swastika means hope. 对我个人，十字符意味着希望。
For Hindus who've grown up with the swastika, 对于伴随十字符长大的印度教教徒来说，
finding out that this emblem of light has been used for the darkest of purposes,can be horrifying. 发现这个标志曾经被用作最黑暗的目的，会是恐怖的。
I was pretty much born with the symbol surrounding me, 我生来就有这个符号环绕我，
and at special occasions,festivals, this symbol would be prevalent. 在特别场合、节日上，这个标志是普遍的。
And then when I finally started studying about the Second World War in history lessons at school,I freaked out. 当我后来在学校历史课上学习二战，我崩溃了。
I saw the symbol and I was just completely gobsmacked. 我看到这个标志，彻底目瞪口呆。
Seeing it in this textbook associated with the Holocaust, with genocide, 在这个教科书中，见到它和种族屠杀、
with racial intolerance, was quite a shock. 种族不容有联系，特别吃惊。
And I wondered how it could've been mutated from something so positive to something to so negative. 我不知道一个如此正面的事物如何被扭曲成如此负面的。
So how did this sacred symbol come to symbolise one of the most evil regimes in history? 那么，这个神圣的标志是如何成为历史上最邪恶的政权之一的呢？
The swastika's metamorphosis began with an archaeological dig in the 19th century. 十字符的变化开始于 19世纪的一次考古挖掘。
In 1874, excavations started at a site believed to be 1874年，在土耳其一个地点开始了挖掘工作，
the ancient city of Troy in Turkey. 被认为是古代特洛伊城。
They were led by a German businessman named Heinrich Schliemann. 他们由德国商人 Heinrich Schliemann 领导。
Schliemann was an adventurer and his real mission Schliemann 是一位冒险家，他的真实任务
was to find the real Troy, the Troy of the Homeric epics. 是找到真正的河马史诗中的特洛伊。
Now, as he dug, he found spheres. Strange spheres with an equator 他挖的时候，发现了球。一个赤道环绕的奇怪的球，
round them bearing the image of what we would call the swastika 上面有十字符的图像。
and plenty of fragments of pottery bearing swastikas. 还有大量有十字符的陶器碎片。
What Schliemann had uncovered was to have deadly consequences. Schliemann 发现的将有致命后果。
His work would inadvertently lay the foundations for a new mythology of the swastika to be constructed. 他的工作无意中为一门即将构建的新的十字符神话奠定基础。
One which would transform it from a sacred symbol of benevolence 那将会将一个神圣的慈爱象征
into the Nazi emblem of the Aryan master race. 转变成 雅利安人种的纳粹象征。
Now, Schliemann didn't know what these symbols were. Schliemann 不知道这些象征是什么。
But there were scholars who were willing to interpret these objects and these symbols for him. 但有乐于为他解读这些物件和象征的学者。
One of these men was a man called Emile Burnouf. 这些人里，有一个叫 Emile Burnouf。
Burnouf was a scholar of ancient Indian literature, Burnouf 是一名古印度文学的学者，
and it was to a Hindu epic called the Rig Veda 他求助于印度史诗 Rig Veda
that he turned to try and make sense of Schliemann's find. 尝试解读 Schliemann 的发现。
In the Rig Vedas, there are a people called the Arias mentioned, 在 Rig Vedas 里, 提到了一个种族 雅利安。
and in the lexicon of the Rig Vedas, the word "swastika" is mentioned. 在 Rig Vedas 的词典里，提到了 "十字符" 这个词汇。
And scholars like Burnouf put the swastika together with the Arias, 类似 Burnouf 的学者将十字符和 雅利安人 凑在一起，说:
and said, "Ah! This was the ancient symbol of these people, the Arias, "啊! 这是 雅利安人 的古代象征，这些人是
"and these people were invaders, warriors, who came from the North, 来自北方的入侵者、勇士，
"who displaced the existing people of India. 排挤了印度当地人
"And these were the same people who we find represented "in the pottery fragments of Troy." 这些人与我们发现的特洛伊陶瓷碎片上表示的人是同一个。"
Two entirely unconnected mythologies were becoming one. 两个完全无联系的神话成为了一体。
The people of ancient Troy were being fused with the Aryans of the Hindu Rig Vedas. 古特洛伊人和印度教 Rig Vedas 中的雅利安人结合成一个。
And the swastika was the symbol that Burnouf claimed united them. Burnouf 声称，十字符是连接他们的标志。
So, really, the swastika fragment became for pseudo-scholars like Burnouf, the perfect excuse to build a new mythology, 因此，对于 Burnouf 这类伪学者，十字符碎片成为构建一个新神话的完美借口，
and invent a single pan-European colonial warrior race 捏造出一个单一的泛欧洲殖民勇士种族，
using the swastika as their emblem. 用十字符作为他们的标志。
For Hitler, a symbol with such a mythology - albeit invented - 对于希特勒，有着这类神话的象征，虽然是捏造的，
was the perfect emblem for his ambitions for Germany. 却是他对德国雄心的完美象征。
The Nazis were involved in this huge project of trying to create a new history for themselves. 纳粹卷入了这场为他们自己创造新历史的巨大工程。
They weren't really happy with their association with Christian history 他们对于和基督教历史有关联不开心，
because they saw that as having Hebrew, Jewish roots. 因为他们将那视为有希伯来犹太教的根基。
And it was that notion of a history that was being kind of imagined 那些历史概念正是从这些不同的符号和来源中设想出来的，
out of these different symbols and sources that Hitler wanted to use 希特勒想用它们
to give the Nazi movement its own foundation. 提供纳粹运动自己的根基。
Within decades, the swastika had been ripped from its ancient religious roots, 几十年内，十字符被从古代宗教根基中剥离，
and become shorthand for the Nazis and their chilling agenda. 成为纳粹和他们冷酷日程的简写。
It was perhaps the most successful example of cultural theft in history. 这也许是历史上最成功的文化窃取的例子。
When you look at the swastika, you don't think this is the symbol of Hinduism. 当你看十字符，你不会想这是印度教的符号。
No, the swastika means Nazism. It means evil, death and genocide. 十字符意味着纳粹。它意味着邪恶、死亡和种族屠杀。
With its new connotations across Europe so entrenched, it seems unlikely 随着这个新的注释在整个欧洲确立，
that the Hindu symbol can ever rid itself of the shadow of Nazism. 看起来印度教的象征不能把自己排除在纳粹阴影下。
Especially, when for those who suffered directly in the Holocaust,it unlocks terrifying memories. 尤其对于那些受到犹太人屠杀直接伤害的人，十字符释放出来令人恐惧的回忆。
I was taken into my first camp at 11 and a half. 我在 11岁半被带到我的第一个营地，
It was just a horrendous place. 那是一个可怕的地方。
Arek Hersh lost 81 members of his family under the Nazis. Arek Hersh 在纳粹统治下，失去了 81名家庭成员。
SS men were there... 党卫军的人在那里，
..and they were beating people, and hanging people and... 他们打人，吊死人，
..just a few of us survived. 只有少数人活了下来。
But you see the swastika everywhere. 但到处能见到十字符，
I abhorred it, actually. 我实际上厌恶它。
I hated to look at it even... 我甚至憎恨看到它，
..because I suffered very much under it. 因为我在它统治下遭受重创。
And even for young Jews today, it's a symbol they still struggle with. 如今，即使对于年轻的犹太人，这仍旧是他们要斗争的符号。
I do shudder when I see it. 我见到十字符会颤抖。
It's something that is very infamous in the Jewish community. 那是犹太社区中非常恶名的东西。
And it's something that I think it would be very difficult...to change. 我觉得，这是一类非常难改变的态度。
The Nazi theft of the Hindu sacred symbol changed 纳粹对印度教神圣标志的窃取，
the perception of the swastika in the west, forever. 永远改变了西方对十字符的认识。
And yet at the time in India, 然而，当时在印度，
it was something most Hindus were unaware of. 那是多数印度教教徒未意识到的。
The vast majority of Hindusespecially in rural areas, mostly illiterate, 绝大多数印度教教徒，尤其是乡村地区的，多数不识字。
obviously did not know for a very long time 显然不知道，在很长一段时间里，
how it had been used by the Nazis. 十字符是如何被纳粹使用的。
But for the educated classes, I think there was a sense of being appalled. 但对于受过教育的额阶级，我想会有一种恐怖感觉。
And amongst Hindus today, 如今在印度教教徒中，
feelings against the Nazis' theft of the swastika run high. 反纳粹窃取十字符的感情高涨。
Germany thought they can hijack this sacred symbol 德国认为他们能劫持神圣的标志，
from the Vedic culture 从 Vedic 文化中
and use it you know to enforce their white supremacy and all that. 用来行使白人主导。
And, people are very angry and upset that a sacred symbol so dear to them in their religion is hijacked by somebody like this. 一个在他们宗教中如此亲切的神圣符号被这类人劫持，他们非常愤怒和不安。
After the war, the feeling against the swastika was so strong, 战后，反对十字符的情绪如此强烈，
that in Germany and Poland, it was banned. 在德国和波兰，它被禁止。
And since then it's become shorthand, not for divine blessings, 从那以后，十字符不再代表神圣赐福，
but for race hatred. 而是种族仇恨的缩写。
It's a misappropriation that's had a real impact on Hindus today. 那是给今天的印度教带来真正冲击的滥用。
The difficult thing is that the swastika that Hitler uses 困难在于，希特勒用的十字符...
and the swastika that Indian culture uses, really do look a lot the same. 和印度教文化中的十字符，真的看起来很多方面都相同。
Often the Indian swastika will have dots between the four arms, 通常，印度人的十字符在四个臂之间会有点，
but there aren't any definite differences that you can always use to separate them out. 但没有任何确定的区别来区分它们。
And that can make it hard for people to distinguish which symbol they're looking at. 这让想区分它们的人变得困难。
And it's this confusion, in a society with little understanding of Hinduism, 在一个很少了解印度教的社会里，这会造成困惑。
that's led to the Hindu symbol inadvertently finding itself under attack. 那导致印度教的象征意外的发现自己被攻击。
In 2007 German MEPs proposed a ban of the public use of swastikas right across the European Union. 2007年，德国议员们倡议禁止整个欧盟在公共场合使用十字符。
It was a proposition that upset many Hindus. 那是一项困扰许多印度教教徒的倡议。
The British Hindus woke up to this 英国的印度教教徒们对这个觉醒了，
and they carried out a campaign to bring awareness 他们进行一次运动，
to the members of the British Parliament... 给英国议员们带去意识，
..to make them understand how sacred this swastika is to the Hindu faith. 让他们了解十字符在印度教信仰中如何神圣。
The British Hindu response was that this was a Eurocentric proposal. 英国的印度教的反应是，这是一项以欧洲为中心的提议。
It wasn't taking into account the bigger picture. 没有考虑到大的图景。
Millions of people use this symbol on a daily basis. 几百万人以天为单位，在使用这个符号。
What had started out as an anxiety about Nazism, 始于对纳粹焦虑的倡议，
had turned into a fight for religious freedom. 已经转变成对宗教自由的斗争。
If Europe wants to be seen as a truly liberal society, 如果欧洲想被视为一个真正自由的社会，
then it has to really be liberal in the bigger picture. 那必须在更大图景上自由。
It has to let go of its history maybe to look at how this symbol has been used in the world in such a positive way for thousands of years, compared to the European historical aberration 应该摆脱历史，对比欧洲历史的异变，看这个符号如何在世界以正面的方式使用几千年的。
that needs to be recognised 应该被意识到，
but also needs to be balanced with the bigger picture. 但也需要用更大的图景去平衡。
The reaction stopped the ban in its tracks... 这个反应阻止禁止倡议于途中。
..and British Hindus were free to display their sacred symbol once more. 英国的印度教教徒们可以再次自由展示他们神圣的符号。
But even though it's not illegal in Britain to show the swastika, 但即使在英国展示十字符不违法，
Hindus who do display it, sometimes face misunderstandings and even insults. 展示它的印度教教徒们，有事面对误解甚至侮辱。
One of the things about Hindus is we don't always explain 关于印度教的事之一是， 我们没有一直很好的对自己教徒和孩子解释。
ourselves very well and children if they take into school 如果孩子把类似十字符的东西带入学校，
something which displays the swastika, if their friends and even the teachers don't know the meaning, they sometimes get chastised 如果他们的朋友，甚至老师不理解含义，
or even worse, you know bullied, for being associated with Nazism. 孩子有时会受到严惩，更坏的是，由于和纳粹有关联而被欺负。
Bharti Taylor spends much of her time teaching children about Hinduism. Bharti Taylor 花费多数时间教孩子印度教。
It's a holy symbol for us, whether you draw it other way or this way. 这对我们来说是一个神圣的标志， 无论你用其它方式还是这种方式画的它。
For her, the key to Hindus being able to show the sign without fear, is knowledge. 对她来说，印度教能够无恐惧的展示这个符号的关键是知识。
I think we should have more education so that everybody understands 我想我们该受更多的教育，这样每个人都理解，
that the symbol is meant to be for the good, not an evil symbol. 那个符号意味着好，不是一个邪恶的符号。
But can Western, European perceptions really be changed? 但西方、欧洲人的看法能被真正改变吗？
Well, where better to start, than with the community for whom 开始于社区会更好。
the swastika holds the greatest fears...the Jews. ...最惧怕十字符的犹太人
Today, Josh Dubell, a member of a London synagogue, 如今，Josh Dubell 作为伦敦犹太教堂的一员，
has been invited to the local Hindu Temple in Neasden. 已经被邀请到 Neasden 当地的印度教庙宇。
The Hindus want to show him the beautiful rangoli they've created. 印度教教徒们想给他展示他们创建的 rangoli，
and to talk to him about their connection with the swastika, 和他谈论印度教和十字符的关系。
in the hope that he might begin to see it in a different light. 希望他能开始用不同的视角看待十字符。
If I saw a swastika on the wall in my local area, 如果我在本地看到墙上有十字符，
I would report it straight away as an anti-semitic attack. 我会直接作为反犹太袭击汇报。
It's something that is synonymous with erm...with hate crimes. 那和憎恨的罪行可以类比。
I can understand that when Josh comes he'll come with some idea of the swastika, 我能理解，当 Josh 来，他会给我带来十字符的思想，
and so it'll be interesting to see how he feels when he does see it, when it's portrayed within the temple. 因此，当他见到庙宇内部绘有十字符时，看他有何感觉是有趣的。
I don't know that much about it as a Hindu symbol. 它作为印度教标志，我了解得不多。
So I really hope to learn what it means to the Hindu faith. 因此，我真的希望学习，十字符对于印度教信仰意味着什么。
Avni is going to show him round. Avni 将给他展示。
Hello. Hello. Hi, Josh, nice to meet you. 你好。你好。Josh，遇到你很高兴。
Nice to meet you too, how are you? I'm good, welcome to Neasden Temple. 也高兴遇到你，你好吧？我好，欢迎来 Neasden 神庙。
Thank you, very happy to be here. Yeah? 谢谢，非常开心来这。 是吗？
And the first swastika Josh encounters appears before he even gets inside. Josh 遇到的第一个十字符出现在他甚至还没进入之前。
The main symbol that I'd like to point out to you is on the doors. 我为你点出的主要标志在门上。
And that's the swastika. Ah, yes. 那是十字符。 是的。
And I guess what that represents is that it's a sign of welcome, 我猜，那代表的是，那是欢迎的标志。
and it's welcoming and wishing them good luck as they enter the temple to pray. Mmm. 它欢迎人们，并希望人们进入寺庙祈祷时有好运。
It's really interesting. I mean me and my people seeing that 很有趣，我的意思是， 我和我的族人过去见到的那个...
symbol in the past hasn't really provided me with that luck, but... 那个标志没有带来好运。
Especially as defined as you can see it here, yeah. 尤其是这种轮廓分明的。
How do you feel about it? 你感觉如何？
It's, it's just a little erm... 只是有点。。。
..taken aback a little bit by the erm...seeing it like this. 看到这个标志有点惊吓。
It's obviously quite different being gold compared to red and black. 很显然，金黄色比起来红色和黑色，有很大不同。
But it's erm...it's really, really beautiful. 但它真的漂亮。
Shall we go on in? Yeah, sure. 我们进去吗？好的，当然。
The swastikas on the doors had a real impact on Josh, and what lies inside is even more striking. 门上的十字符对 Josh 有冲击，里面的更加引人注目。
How do you feel now seeing this? 现在你见到这个有何感受？
I mean this is more in red now. Oh, right. 我的意思是，这更加红了。是的。
So this is called a rangoli and I guess it's an expression of worship. 这被成为 rangoli，我猜是表达崇拜。
And you'll find it at times of really big religious occasions or ceremonies. 当有大的宗教场合或者仪式时，你会见到它。
The swastika represents prosperity and good luck and wealth. 十字符代表繁荣，好运和健康。
How do you feel like in terms of the shape or is it something that's different? 对于形状你感觉如何？有什么不同吗？
Obviously to me, it's the most anti-Jewish symbol that 很显然， 这是我见过的最反犹太人的标志。
I've ever seen in terms of the death of a lot of people in my religion. 我见过我的宗教里许多人的死亡，
And er...I mean it seems a little bit less harsh. 我的意思是，它看上去少了点苛刻。
OK, yeah, because of the curl? Yeah, I think so. 因为弯曲吗？是的，我想是这样。
You see, when I was growing up, 当我成长时，
I always had this positive view of the swastika, 总是对十字符持有正面的观点。
so I never understood how it could mean something, you know, that it may mean to you. 因此，我不理解，十字符怎么会意味着你说的那样呢。
As Josh's visit draws to an end, he's got a lot to think about. 当 Josh 的到访接近尾声，他有许多要思考的。
I was taken aback on the doors but now you talk about it a little bit more, 我在门口被惊吓，但现在你谈论它多一些了。
and that's why I think dialogue is really, really important. 那就是我认为对话真的重要的原因。
We talk a lot about what separates us, but hopefully we can 我们谈论了许多关于什么分离了我们，
use this symbol to come together and talk about the things that we have in common. 希望我们能利用这个标志走到一起，谈论我们共有的事情。
Avni and Josh's experiences of the swastika are worlds apart, Avni 和 Josh 的十字符经历区别很大，
but their meeting has started to break down long-held prejudice. 但他们的会面已经开始去除长久持有的偏见。
It's still very, very strange and a little alien to me, 仍旧很怪异，对我来说有点陌生，
but it's actually changed some of my opinions about the swastika. 但确实改变了我对十字符的一些看法。
Maybe it can be used for good. 也许它可以被用在好的方面。
I think Josh's visit is like a first step in the Jewish community 我想 Josh 的来访是第一步，犹太社区的人
coming to understand that the swastika means so many different things. 来了解 十字符意味着如此不同的事物。
He understood that it doesn't necessarily have to mean one thing, universally. 他理解到，十字符不必只意味着一件事情。
It can mean different things for different people. 通常来讲， 十字符可能对不同的民族，意味着不同的事物。
I don't know whether the Jewish community will feel the same way as I do, 我不知道犹太人社区是否会和我感觉的一样，
but you know what, hopefully we can really start to educate ourselves that this symbol 但希望我们可以开始对我们自己进行教育，这个标志
can be used for something positive. 可能被用于正面的事物。
Perhaps this ancient Hindu symbol, which for so long has held such different meanings 许久以来，两个宗教社区对十字符持有如此不同的含义，
for these two religious communities, might actually bring them closer together. 也许这个古代印度教的标志会将他们拉的更近。
And as Hindus across Britain prepare to celebrate Diwali, 当整个英国的印度教教徒准备庆祝排灯节，
the festival that marks the banishment of darkness and the coming of light, 标志驱逐黑暗、带来光明的节日，
maybe it's a first step towards the swastika being reclaimed for good. 也许，这是十字符被永久的重新声明代表正面的第一步。
I think over time the swastika will be redeemed in Europe. 我想，经过时间流逝，十字符会在欧洲恢复名誉。
Just because something in one context looks bad doesn't mean we slam it. 仅仅因为一样事物在某种背景下看起来坏，并不意味着我们要猛力抨击它。
We have to look at the bigger picture always. 我们不得不总要看看更大的图景。
So the change will come, it'll just take time. 因此变化会来的，只是需要时间。
Wouldn't it be nice if one day there are people who saw the swastika being used in public 有人看到十字符被用于公开场合，说:
and said, "oh that's an Indian symbol. "哦，我知道那个标志，那是一个印度标志，
"Hindus use it to signify auspiciousness and blessing." 印度教用它来预示吉兆和祝福。" 这不是很好吗？
And when they later come to see the Nazi use of the symbol, 当他们后来见到纳粹对这个标志的使用，
they think, "Gosh that's horrific, that's really inappropriate." 他们想: "天啊，那真恐怖，那真的是不适当的。"
If we can get to that point then finally Hitler will really have been defeated. 如果我们能理解那点，那么最终希特勒将真的被打败。
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd 道兰论坛 daolan.net 原创中文字幕 cym合并中英字